November 2, 2018 - Prince George, British Columbia

Date: November 2, 2018
Location: Prince George, British Columbia

Total participants

Q1) What does a stronger western Canadian economy look like 10 years from now?

New technologies, big data, disruptive technologies are changing how we live.

• Western Canada needs to have more technologies in the resource sectors to make them more efficient, environmentally friendly, and productive. Never going to win the labor fight, maybe win the supply fight. Need to get ahead through innovation and trying new things. The more energy we can put towards getting people to try new things, the better. For example, the guy who invented a calculator in his basement in Prince George for the electrical mapping of mills that is now being used by Canfor. New technologies make tasks that were complex in the past simple now.
• Rebuttal on the 'labour war' comment.
  • It's not really about sustainable practices in response to weaker prices, it's about harnessing innovation, know-how, and capacity – the application of technologies to the natural resource sector. Good business practices and economic gain.

Innovative mills, softwood lumber dispute. The mill north of Quesnel – the problem Americans have with competing with Canadian lumber isn't low stumpage fees, it's the technology that is amazing. But there aren't a lot of people working there (employment).

• Innovation was the reason why our industry has remained strong in BC after the last downturn - faster and smarter. Those mills survived and are growing because they have been able to grow their efficiencies. This is common to all industries and will be necessary in the future. We have 60,000 direct jobs in forestry in BC – it's not the jobs we had previously, but there are still a lot in the industry.

There is growing recognition that it doesn't make sense to squeeze more people into the Lower Mainland - it doesn't make sense to put more pressure on housing prices. How does that translate into attracting talent into PG and PR?

• A lot of effort going into solving the affordability problems in Vancouver create problems in others areas of BC and in smaller rural cities. It keeps people in Vancouver and draws people away from BC's smaller communities, like Prince George, which has "all the amenities". The provincial government should let supply and demand drive talent and the movement of workers, and should stop trying to encourage affordability in Vancouver. General idea being made in this statement was that workers will move from Vancouver into smaller cities because costs are lower.
• Surveyed business to ask what they need – the number one answer is access to people. Exporting is a priority, but we can't even get enough people to operate.
• Who is going to go to school at UNBC when they can make $50 an hour mowing a lawn?

Improving access to talent and skilled workers.

• Businesses are importing people to fill jobs for large projects and this has a negative impact on local communities and FN communities. Little to no training is done locally, resulting in people leaving their communities to find work and businesses to hiring foreign workers to bring in talent.
• We're finding that energy companies are doing internal training programs, shipping people in, training them, and then those people are leaving.
• People that are mobile are going to be mobile anyway. Take a look at Fort Mac, all project based. It works in Canada for people to be able to fly in from across the country. What kind of strategy is there to keep people after the big boom of LNG or other big projects? A lot of people have come to live for 2-3 years and stay (a lot leave too) because they see the value in living here. Some people get to the peak of the employment cycle and move on. Agreement that government shouldn't be supporting people staying in Vancouver – it is insulting. The fact is that people get a bit soft.
• If we want to have more jobs up here, need to look at more businesses we should put up here, and develop the northern trade corridor. With inland ports, expanding rail lines – it is significantly more efficient than putting anything through the southern ports to get to Asia. PG has the first road network that ties to the rail network, which ties to the port. We should be taking advantage of this.
• There is a strong need for very efficient and direct lines of transportation and collaboration to get products to international markets quickly.
• If we take the long game and think about this over time, we'll make good decisions. More people die coming down Everest than going up, because everyone trains to get up. Need to be more concerned about after LNG, how do we maintain some sense of progress?
• No one wants the North to turn into Vancouver. How are things going to look after LNG? In the 60s, forestry was everything. Who would have thought we would have the university, cancer centre, etc.

Would infrastructure be prepared for people to stay? Health Care, airport.

• Most workers will be imported for large projects and this has negative impact on local communities and FN communities. Little to no training is done locally resulting in people leaving their communities to find work and businesses to hiring foreign workers to bring in talent
• Lessons learned - Fort Mac built airport that will accommodate 1.5m passengers. They didn't talk to the oil companies about the workers coming in. There were 3 - 4 projects in construction phase, at the time. Didn't talk about how those people will be staying home after and the airport would be lucky to have 600,000 annually in the longer run. Need to consult with the industry to get numbers expected and project year-for-year.

Climate change and agriculture

• Agriculture is going to become more and more viable every year because of climate change – looking for businesses who will be able to accelerate those opportunities will be key. Clean tech in agriculture will be the same model as with coal or lumber - innovative technologies increase efficiencies.

T'Sou-ke First Nation Greenhouses - uneconomical tomato operation, now growing wasabi, very high value and light. Finding niche markets that you can directly and efficiently participate in.

• Cannabis – In Alberta, company putting in their first greenhouse with specialized glass that can accommodate 40 acres in size that can take full snow loads, powered with effluent from communities. Agriculture can be a game changing sector for the future – need to engage young people. Indigenous communities are well equipped to participate and pioneer this.
• Issue of getting the cherries from Southern OK example – all about transport to YVR in 48 hrs. Solution: getting someone from YVR on the board of the cherry growers' association. That level of collaboration is needed.
• Transportation system around the world has changed, with Amazon, etc.

Pessimism about the commodity cycle. The average American did much more poorly than they did out of previous recessions due to much more limited labour mobility. Could we see that in Canada?

• That's what happening with Fort Mac, people aren't adjusting.
• Unintended consequence of our fetishism for innovation. "Smartest Place on Earth" - book about the Rust Belt. Belief that if they just come up with the right tools, they can stay in place; that we can innovate our way out of anything [more discussion on this prompt in Q3].
• Communities pledged their support to make the Northern Medical Program succeed; that is a regional solution. 60,000 people petitioned.

Think more about what a regional economy looks like – Postsecondary skills training, collaboration

• In rural communities, we need to work harder to get what is had in Metro Van – and have to fund it ourselves (medical program).
• Need a regional solution to a pressing need, and practical community-driven aspirations. Universities and colleges are built to compete against each other. The goal should be that making sure every eligible student can get a post-secondary education.
• Competition between universities is problematic because it takes students away from their home towns and local economy. A student can get a very good education in a northern BC university but they are drawn to universities like UBC and UofT because of competition and funding. Public base funding for universities is based on numbers of students per year, which is part of what drives this problem. Other funding is based more on publications and international recognition than on students' needs.
• There needs to be more co-ops to give young people hands-on experience and skillsets.
• There is a need to help high school graduates find the skills that they need to participate in their communities. Students do not know where labour trends are going and what opportunities and skills will be most in-demand in the future.
• It's difficult for post-secondaries to help guide high school students because the high school system is a mess.

Theme #1: Innovation

• More technologies in the resource sectors are needed to make them more efficient, environmentally friendly, and productive.
• The more energy we can put towards getting people to try new things, the better.
• Agriculture is going to become more and more viable every year because of climate change, and could be a game changing sector for the future. Looking for businesses who will be able to accelerate those opportunities will be key. We need to engage young people and Indigenous communities - they are well equipped to participate in and pioneer this.

Theme #2: Focusing on Vancouver/big city issues creates problems in the North and ignores opportunities

• A lot of effort going into solving the housing and affordability problems in Vancouver creates problems in other areas of BC and in smaller rural cities. It keeps people in Vancouver and draws people away from BC's smaller communities. [There was strong consensus on this point.]
• To create more jobs, we need to look at which businesses need to be up here, and develop the northern trade corridor. With inland ports, expanding rail lines – it is significantly more efficient than putting anything through the southern ports to get to Asia. PG has the first road network that ties to the rail network, which ties to the port. We should be taking advantage of this.

Theme #3: Skills shortage/training – A regional solution is needed

• The number one thing businesses need in the North is access to workers. Exporting is a priority, but we can't even get enough people to operate. High wages for general labour create a disincentive for people to pursue post-secondary education and skills training.
• Little to no training is done locally, resulting in people leaving their communities to find work and businesses to hiring foreign workers to bring in talent.
• There is a need to help high school graduates find the skills that they need to participate in their communities.
• The goal should be that making sure every eligible student can get a post-secondary education, not competing for seats filled. Competition between universities is problematic because it takes students away from their home towns and local economy.
• What kind of strategy is there to keep people after the big boom of LNG or other big projects?

Q2) What are the best ways to spur new growth in western Canada

Entrepreneurship, exporting

• Need a different kind of system in Northern BC. We need a regional approach to economic development.
• Israeli Innovation Authority. Gives people $1,000 to innovate/start something. Giving more people more opportunities to try starting businesses and innovating – enter the economy. Loans are paid back only if they are successful. Israel was getting 25-1 return on this program. You get payment before you ship anything. The more people you get to try things the more successes you'll have. Compared to Israel, Canada is the wrong size of country. In US or Europe you don't have to think about global markets. But in Israel you do (population of 6M). Israel therefore has a mindset of being innovators and global exporters immediately. Canada could implement a similar type of program to encourage entrepreneurial spirit, reduce financial burdens to innovation, and remove some of the inherent risk of entrepreneurism.
• Smithers is way more outward-facing than PG as the population is only 5000. You're not only looking at selling in Smithers, you have to look outward, and every small town is like that. PG can sustain some small businesses. The Internet is the equalizer of things, as it doesn't matter where you are.
• BC provides a good environment for entrepreneurs to grow; Global markets for small entrepreneurs on the gulf islands – connected to wholesale distributers.
• Need to be thinking about not only our export markets but also developing the domestic use of our resources. Need to identify opportunities for investments, and look to the future. Need to position our country for leadership. Some of the best ways to spur growth might be to recognize regional opportunities and domestic growth opportunities before focusing solely on international exports. It's less about commodity prices. This could be particularly beneficial for Indigenous peoples. Common complaint among entrepreneurs: Difficulty in finding local clients for new products.
• "Get together, collaborate, think big, get big."
• Is PG doing a good enough job promoting entrepreneurs? No, we are always reluctant to celebrate ourselves. It's the way we are as Canadians.
• Scaling up firms: we have a great entrepreneurial environment. We have 3 unicorns that were bought. Pattern in BC: we grow firms, then they get bought, or slip from unicorn status and relocated.
• For all the talk of helping SMEs, we do very little to help companies make the final step to grow from medium size to large. Some firms just need a little bit more. Google doesn't need our help to become super.

Are regulations a holdback? Depends on the sector – clean tech not tight enough, life sciences prohibitive.

• Some people say the regulations have to change. Multinationals that have done well, have eaten up other companies that can't do well on a macro level.
  • Criticism of regulatory system in the Economic Strategy Tables
• In the absence of regulations, a lower carbon economy would be in our best interests.
• Starting point for any regulator is the existing regulations. A large, high-level strategy document can give some momentum and weight to addressing this.
• Re: The broader bio-economy: if we start to think about managing forests in a different way, we can develop local economies – get creative about solutions and spur the economy. Reduced risk has a dollar value.

Theme #1: Promoting Entrepreneurship and Innovation

• The Israeli Innovation Authority has a program that gives people $1000 to innovate something, giving people more opportunities to innovate and enter the economy. Israel was getting a 25-1 return on this.
• The more people you get to try things the more successes you'll have.
• Canada could implement a similar type of program to encourage entrepreneurial spirit, reduce financial burdens to innovation, and remove some of the inherent risk of entrepreneurism
• Is PG doing a good enough job promoting entrepreneurs? No, as Canadians, we are always reluctant to celebrate ourselves. More needs to be done.

Theme #2: The Importance of Diversifying Export Markets and Developing Domestic Markets

• In US or Europe you don't have to think about global markets. But in small nations like Israel, you do. Israel, therefore, has a mindset of being innovators and global exporters, immediately.
• Entrepreneurs in small communities in BC are in a similar position of needing to be outward-facing and exporting.
• At the same time, one of the best ways to spur growth might be to recognize regional opportunities and domestic opportunities before focusing solely on international exports.

Theme #3: Supporting SME Scale Up and Retaining them in Communities 

• For all the talk of helping SMEs, we do very little to help companies make the final step to grow from medium size to large, but we do a lot for large international companies. Think of Amazon adding an office in Vancouver as an example. Governments will submit applications to Amazon highlighting all of the incentives that they will offer to the business if they do business in that area. This never happens for SMEs.
• There need to be mechanisms and programs in place to help companies train/change senior level management once they reach a certain company size. As it stands, once a startup reaches a certain point, many of the CEO can no longer be at the top of the company because they don't have the skillset to run such large companies. At this point many companies choose to sell their businesses to larger players and exit. A new program called RevUp has started that addresses this issue. CEO becomes the vision person and others are moved in to take over the management roles.

Q3) What will help the Indigenous economy continue to grow?

Mobility of labour (from Q2 discussion)

• It feels like we're talking about two different economies, the mobile economy and not. If the indigenous population is to be a part of things 10 years down the road, it needs to be where they live, place-based. Maybe it is agriculture, food security, and based there
• They've been here 10,000 years – we need to think a little more out there (beyond 10 years) in terms of our time frames. Utilizing Indigenous knowledge and sense of place as a tool for building a regional economy. One of the challenges has been regulations around the Indian act – it keeps them constrained in a reserve system that doesn't allows to mobility, ownership, or entrepreneurship. Need to loosen up around the Indian Act – would probably get support from people in Hazelton area but also get people a bit scared. Expecting innovation and economic growth in this sort of system is not possible and changes to the Indian Act will be a step in helping to resolve this. There are now mechanisms that allow FN's to come out from under the Indian Act (e.g. allowing for ownership)

Theme #1: The need for place-based economies and longer time frames

• If the Indigenous population is to be a part of things 10 years down the road, it needs to be where they live, be place-based.
• There is a need to utilize Indigenous knowledge and sense of place as a tool for building a regional economy.

Theme #2: Changes to the Indian Act are essential

• Regulations around the Indian act are problematic – it keeps them constrained in a reserve system that doesn't allows to mobility, ownership, or entrepreneurship.
• Expecting innovation and economic growth in this sort of system is not possible and changes to the Indian Act will be a step in helping to resolve this.

Q4) How can we improve economic participation in the west of underrepresented groups, including women, youth, and new immigrants

Inclusion of Indigenous Peoples in forestry

• Unemployment in the area in the winter is 95%. First Nation community nearby has had some employment from forestry but overall, insufficient benefits. When resources are extracted in FN territory, FN people need to be able to gain access to the jobs that are created by resource projects and gain access to the wealth created as well. First Nations people need to have equal opportunity to training and education and there needs to be an effort to teach FN people how our economy works and how they can effectively contribute to it. In 10 years, hopefully a strong economy would recognize the importance of acknowledgement of Indigenous territory. Specifically acknowledging the impact of extracting resources from that territory and ensuring equitable impact. We need to look more closely on how to involve them directly. Not so much about new tech here, but it's going to be more about trades and extractive practices.

There's a lot more work that needs to be done in this area. Connectivity initiatives are underway that will link dozens of First Nations Communities.

• A change in technology changed the relationship to forestry jobs. Jobs are outliving best before dates – communities that have shifted from resource-based and survived have been tied to universities and colleges, skills training.
• Thesis example - There was a policy that the trees would have to be processed there, creating jobs. Now that the policy is not there, missed opportunity for FN in close proximity to these resources. Recognizing the impact to the whole community. What the policy did was it gave the region a leg up and a recognition of the value of the PLACE of their resources.
• When we engage Indigenous groups in the competitive process, we need to realize that equality is not the same as equitable treatment. We actually need a leg up in order to participate in these types of economies. This is the reason for PG getting UNBC, we needed that leg up. To put a university with a medical program, to the scale of investment of UNBC, that's only seen in a handful of places.
• When Gitxsan Nation negotiated a contract to develop biomass for the rec centre, the province stepped up on providing training for the community to participate.

BCICEI – During creation of the advisory board, Miles Richardson questioned it immediately. If this is just the communities ascribing to predetermined criteria of the government, they didn't want anything to do with it. Needed to come up with a collaborative model.

• Community-based programs in recreation are needed – providing that infrastructure provides hope to the community.
• As someone who has observed in Upper Skeena – coming to FN with projects and asking if they are in agreement with it doesn't work – it's coming to them with some ownership that does– requires more work but necessary. It will be necessary for us to arrive at a governance model that speaks to the needs of the people that you're working with and give them a real opportunity to participate. There needs to be more collaboration and co-development between FN people, government, and industry. This will give a sense of ownership to First Nations people. Having a model that specifically does this will encourage equal participation and opportunity.
• 10 years from now, Indigenous involvement won't look much different, but the commodity prices will change. Need a true regional approach, it will not be the same as Vancouver or Saskatchewan – this government has no idea, honestly and genuinely what the skills training is needed. The communities know - they call saying we need a course for Excel skills, money ends up going to other projects though.
• What Indigenous heroes do we have? Need to award honorary degrees

Theme #1: Acknowledging the impact of extracting resources from Indigenous territories and ensuring equitable opportunity and impact

• When resources are extracted in Indigenous territory, Indigenous people need to be able to gain access to the jobs that are created by resource projects and gain access to the wealth created as well.
• First Nations people need to have equal opportunity to training and education, and there needs to be an effort to teach Indigenous people how our economy works and how they can effectively contribute to and benefit from it.
• There is a difference between equality and equity – Rural and Indigenous people in isolated communities have challenges that impact their baseline opportunities to compete for funding/attention. This should be reflected in evaluation frameworks for policies/programs. A leg up is needed.

Theme #2: Governance, Ownership and Collaboration

• There needs to be more collaboration and co-development between Indigenous people, government, and industry. This will give a sense of ownership to First Nations people. Having a model that specifically does this will encourage equal participation and opportunity.
• This government has no idea, honestly and genuinely, what skills training is needed – this needs to be addressed.
• Coming to First Nations with projects and asking if they are in agreement with it doesn't work – it's coming to them with some ownership that does – it requires more work but it is necessary.

Theme #3: Building Community and Recognition

• Community-based programs in recreation are needed – providing that infrastructure provides hope to the community.
• What Indigenous heroes do we have? Need to award honorary degrees

Q5) How can governments, industry, and western Canadians work together to grow the regional economy?

WD resources and what they bring to the table

• How can governments help us? Work with us.
• Encourage them to put incentives in place that demonstrate a commitment to a regional solution and encourage project proponents to make sure that their projects are benefiting the regions that they are working in and that benefits aren't being collected and moved elsewhere. Wants to see better collaboration between government and communities

Interesting that the partnerships topic gets the least amount of attention in urban areas

• People up here know how to partner (otherwise we don't get anything). The entire North is the region – not debating whether PG or FSJ is the centre. Anything that requires partnerships – we will excel.

Education institutions competing – incentives are the number of seats you are filling. The basic funding model doesn't address the issue.

• Issue is competing with urban universities on funding, attention.
• Government loves 2 + 2 model – 2 in college and 2 in university. But we want them for 4. Unless they are coming from Alberta.
• Gap in education after – How can we incentivize them to stay? Need more stability. In Northern Health, they end up as casuals who can't commit to buying a house or anything.
• Grads have infiltrated themselves everywhere where decisions are made.
• Emphasizing the unique situation of the north, rural environments (Compared to Vancouver where you can hop on the bus and be at Google). There isn't the ability to intern at the large companies down the road. Maybe we bring the companies here, satellite offices. Need to adjust to include students in the north to be innovative -  with integrated learning and mentorship opportunities. We have to change the approach because the geographic challenges, and we will miss out otherwise.
• BC schools are ahead of the rest of the country with co-op programs.
• People won't stay without the arts, amenities.
• There's some level of priority that is missing. E.g. transportation corridor - hearing complaints that there's no money to promote the southern corridor, whereas you get 3x bang for your buck in promoting northern corridor.
• Promoting the transportation corridors is a very important part to getting Canadian products to market and promoting the Canadian brand globally. The FTZ is one of our greatest resources but we don't have the time and money to leverage and promote it. Government could promote it – funding was cut right when the designation was awarded. There are programs to get funding but they're too prescriptive. When looking at regional opportunities, each region is different and the funding programs have to reflect that, be more flexible.
• Airports are all competitive, but we are lacking the strategy that says "here is the best way to be in the trade programs for Asia, US, Europe". Pouring so much money into this corridor (high costs).
• Northern BC has a bad rap in Vancouver, but has a great rep in other parts of Canada. If you take the story south, we have the issue of the electoral reform referendum that will probably be divisive. 70% of the exports in BC come from outside the lower mainland.
• How to do we get resources to market? If we end up taking a look at that and look at the benefits of the north, the jobs (ag, trade, etc.) will remain up here, including that of indigenous populations. There's a good chance we can do something in the north that will show results in 10 years. "some things are Prince George perfect, we don't go as far as we could go" (Don't reach/not striving for full potential).
• Have already had conversation re: what would it mean if we thought about the community as a region? It can be a place where things start. There are ways of doing this, it's just about how to approach it.
• UNBC is developing its own independent engineering program
• WD needs to create the environment to allow young people to stay in smaller centres.

Theme #1: Incentives that demonstrate a commitment to a regional solution

• The government should put incentives in place that demonstrate a commitment to a regional solution and encourage project proponents to make sure that their projects are benefiting the regions that they are working in and that benefits aren't being collected and moved elsewhere.
• Want to see better collaboration between government and communities

Theme #2: Education Incentives and Retaining Graduates In the Community

• Issue is competing with urban universities for funding and attention
• Gap in education after school – how can we incentivize them to stay? Need more stability, amenities and the arts.
• Emphasis on the unique situation of the north, rural environments - No ability to intern at the large companies down the road in the North. Maybe we need to attract the companies here, satellite offices. Need to adjust to so that students have better access to integrated learning and mentorship opportunities, e.g. via satellite offices for coop work on northern campuses.
• The government needs to create the environment to allow young people to stay in smaller centres.

Theme #3: Promoting the Transportation Corridors

• Promoting the transportation corridors is a very important part to getting Canadian products to market and promoting the Canadian brand globally
• The FTZ is one of our greatest resources but we don't have the time and money to leverage and promote it. Government could promote it
• How to do we get resources to market? If we end up taking a look at that and look at the benefits of the north, the jobs (ag, trade, etc.) will remain up here, including that of Indigenous populations.